Interview | Omar Abdullah next J&K CM, Pakistan a 'gone game' in Kashmir, Nawaz Sharif as Pak PM is good for India: Former spymaster AS Dulat

Former spymaster AS Dulat in a freewheeling interview with ETV Bharat’s Saurabh Sharma spoke about Pakistan, China, and more importantly how things look and really are in Kashmir. Read on...

New Delhi:Former IB and RAW chief A S Dulat who has always had a curious take on Kashmir, its turbulent past and the political strings in the valley and who plays them better, believes that Pakistan now has "no role" to play in Kashmir as the country is a "gone game".

Dulat in a freewheeling interview with ETV Bharat’s Saurabh Sharma said while outwardly separatism in Kashmir has faded but "it is still alive and brewing in closed chambers". The former spymaster said the chapter of militancy in Jammu Kashmir shattered the secular ethos prevailing in the valley and since the late 1980s, Kashmir has never been the same.

On the instability in Pakistan and the rumours of former Chief Minister Nawaz Sharif's entry and its implications for India, Dulat said that "India always had good relations with Miyan Sahib."

Here are the excerpts from the interview:

ETV Bharat:How do you see the present situation of Jammu Kashmir, especially after the abrogation of Article 370? Has any positive development happened?

A S Dulat: Well, tourism has been booming. Look at the figures, it is remarkable and this is a great positive development for Kashmiri businessmen. On the security front, one has to accept the fact that Pakistan is a gone game now. Even Kashmiris today believe that Pakistan has no role to play. So, I would rather say that separatism has declined but not terrorism. We have been witnessing a surge in terror attacks in Poonch and Rajouri which is a cause of concern. Let's put it this way, separatism may have faded but the fact of the matter is that it is still alive and brewing under the closed chambers. Nobody knows when it will erupt but yes, for the time being, it has decreased hugely.

ETB: In one of your recent articles, you argue that Jamat-I-Islami has been growing its presence in Kashmir. Why do you think that it has grown immensely post the abrogation of Article 370 despite the fact that the Home Ministry banned it in 2019?

Dulat: Jamat has penetrated into the roots of Kashmir which for me is a matter of extreme concern. Kashmir has always been the tower of secularism but after militancy, these very principles faced threats from radicalism. But, at this moment despite the ban that was imposed by the Ministry of Home Affairs after the abrogation of Article 370, this has made little impact on the ground in terms of the Jamaat’s political hold and support network.

The fact is that you may bring down the members of this outfit but not its sympathizers. The alienation and hopelessness after August 5 have hugely impacted the psyche of Kashmiris and have made them hopeless. And this hopelessness and alienation provided a base for outfits like Jamaat to increase their foothold in the region.

ETB: You have witnessed the most turbulent times in Kashmir very closely. How do you see the present situation especially since elections have been deferred time and again?

Dulat:There is hopelessness and silence which is dangerous. What we need is the revival of the democratic process and early elections.

ETB: In your last book, you say that Dr Farooq Abdullah has become more religious, why do you think that?

Dulat: Dr Abdullah has grown old. When he was put under house arrest for seven months after the abrogation, this hugely impacted him. But the situation in Kashmir, the dealing of Delhi and his rising age are the factors behind Dr Abdullah's becoming more religious.

ETB: You have closely monitored the developments in the valley. Do you think that Dr Farooq can shake hands with BJP?

Dulat:It would be very difficult for him after what happened to Mufti Sayed (former J&K CM) and his daughter Mehbooba Mufti. He might think of going with BJP but his heart will never allow him.

It all depends on when the elections are conducted in the valley. Whether it is before the Lok Sabha or after the Lok Sabha elections.

ETB:Will Kashmir vote for BJP?

Dulat: No! Kashmiris are unhappy with BJP and might not vote for BJP. They might win seats from Jammu but not in the valley.

ETB: You must have seen former Kashmir Governor Satya Pal Malik's statements. How do you see this given the fact that his tenure in Kashmir must have been based on the trust that he enjoyed in the eyes of PM Modi and NSA Ajit Doval?

Dulat:I don't know anything about this. But yes, his tenure in Kashmir must have been fixed only after a lot of deliberations and trust in him. NSA Ajit Doval must have had a hand in Malik's appointment to Kashmir.

ETB:When was the last time you met Mr Doval?

Dulat: I still consider him a very good friend of mine. We all are from the same biradri. The last time I talked to him was a year ago and after that, there has been no communication.

ETB: And PM Modi, have you ever met him?

Dulat:There was a ceremony at RAW headquarters and PM Modi addressed the event. What struck me was his words that agencies need to develop good relations with the people. And that is what I did in Kashmir. I also wanted Kashmiris to trust Delhi.

ETB: Who will be the next CM of Kashmir?

Dulat: Dr Farooq Abdullah is the tallest leader of Jammu Kashmir and his party is the biggest in the valley. Omar Abdullah, Dr Farooq's son, would be the next CM. There's no doubt about that.

ETB: You have worked closely with former PM Atal Bihari Vajpayee apart from your service intelligence. What is the main difference in today's BJP as compared to the BJP of Atal Bihari Vajpayee?

Dulat:Atal Ji was a gentleman and indeed a very smart and crafty politician. He knew how to gain trust and win people's hearts. He never hesitated to even talk to his opponents. But, PM Modi is also a very smart and crafty politician and that is the reason why people have voted for him. Vajpayee's era was something else and that period has gone.

ETB:You always talk about Mirwaiz Umar Farooq's (who is under house arrest since the abrogation of Article 370) role in Kashmir. Where do you see him politically?

Dulat: He is a big man. One cannot ignore him. He can play a huge role. He is educated and a modern man but he is weak as well. His family has witnessed disastrous setbacks in the past. One cannot forget the fact that his father was assassinated. He can play a big role if Delhi wishes to.

ETB: Where do you see the role of China in the international arena as China has been emerging as a key mediator?

Dulat: Its status is rising and it has become a powerful state. China was the key mediator in bringing Saudi and Iran to the same table which could change the geopolitics of West Asia. China has even invited the Palestinian President, even though the latter has not yet responded but it gives a glimpse of China's emergence in the international mediation. Even, the US believes that China could broker a deal between Russia and Ukraine as President Xi Jinping enjoys a very cordial relationship with Russian President Putin.

ETB:On India-China relations?

Dulat: We need to engage with China on a continuous basis.

ETB: There are rumours that the former Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif would be the next PM. What are the implications for India?

Dulat:The Government of India would be really happy with 'Miyan Sahib'. When Atal Ji was the PM, he went to Lahore and even PM Modi visited him. We've always had good relations with Nawaz Sharif and there should be no problem with him.