Interview | Najeeb Jung on word 'kaafir', cow, hate speech and meeting with RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat

In a free-wheeling conversation with ETV Bharat's Saurabh Sharma, Delhi's former LG Najeeb Jung speaks on the urgency to end misunderstanding between the RSS and the Muslims to help the country move ahead. The retired IAS officer says religion is important but keepers of faiths need scientific temperament as well.

New Delhi: Ex-LG of Delhi Najeeb Jung, who along with a few Muslim representatives had met RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat in the backdrop of a rise in hate speeches, Islamophobia, and Hindu-Muslim polarisation, Monday said there was a need to end any misgivings between the Muslims and the RSS.

"There are several issues that need to be addressed and a handful of meetings cannot resolve the pending issues," Jung said in an exclusive interview with ETV Bharat. Besides Jung, former Chief Election Commissioner SY Quraishi, former vice-chancellor of Aligarh Muslim University Lieutenant General (Retd.) Zameer Uddin Shah, Rashtriya Lok Dal national vice-president Shahid Siddiqui, and businessman Saeed Shervani also met Bhagwat.

“We expect and wish to meet not just the RSS but people of all faiths, thinkers, lawyers and academics etc. Of course, RSS is a very important organisation, so we wish to meet the organisation's leaders not just once but expect to continue meeting them till we end our differences. Our effort is to create an atmosphere of congeniality and usher in peace in this great land that has welcomed all faiths and beliefs for hundreds of years,” Jung said.

Here are the excerpts from the interview:

ETV:You met RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat last year and had a close-door meeting in January this year as well with RSS's top functionaries. What transpired between you and the Hindutva outfit leaders?

Jung:One needs to understand that a couple of meetings cannot resolve the long pending issues. There are several issues that need to be addressed and for that, active communication is a must. Without active engagement, one cannot expect results and we are in touch with the RSS. So, there are issues like cow slaughter, the word 'Kaafir' and hate speech which are among the issues featured in our dialogues. Through heart-to-heart dialogue, animosity can be erased and goodwill is fostered.

ETV: You said that you are still in touch with RSS. So far, two rounds of talks took place. Are you planning to meet the RSS leaders again?

Jung:Yes, we have met twice and we will meet soon for the third time as well. Mohan Bhagwat is a widely respected man, who is heading one of the biggest organisations and naturally is quite a busy man. So, fixing a meeting and scheduling a date sometimes becomes a difficult task. Last month, we had decided to meet but there were some scheduling issues. So, we are hoping that we'll meet soon.

ETV: Several intellectuals, writers and others viewed these meetings between the Muslim delegation and RSS as a futile attempt to create a conducive environment. What is your opinion on that?

Jung:People are free to hold any opinion and I've no problem with those people who feel that such meetings have no value. But my point is why get impatient about results of an exercise which has just begun? We are not talking to RSS as the representatives of the Muslims or people associated with politics, we just want to keep the channels of engagement open.

ETV:Despite your meetings with the RSS, incidences of hate speech, and religious polarization haven't stopped. Why so?

Jung:How can someone expect results so early? When we met Bhagwat, he had things to say about Muslims and we had to say things about Hindus. Then only we knew that differences exist somewhere. This understanding is necessary to get to the root of the problem. How can you resolve a problem without understanding it? Dialogue always helps to move further.

There's a general view that a person in the Hindu community has a grievance against Muslims who, they believe, call them kaafir. They also think that all Muslims support cow slaughter while the animal is sacred to them.

But we told them that cows should be made a national animal. We understand that cow is a sacred animal for the Hindus and that should be respected. But if a crazy person indulges in such activity, then the whole blame is being put on the entire Muslim community. In my view this is wrong.

Also, the word 'kafir' in the Quran stands for non-believers and not for Hindus. Hindus believe in God; they don’t fall into this category. They believe in Brahma and Shiva, so how can they be called Kaafir as they are believers? While an atheist can be called 'Kaafir' since he/she does not believe in God. But to my mind, an atheist is welcome to his/her views. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

The RSS has misunderstandings about Muslims. As do Muslims in India have misunderstandings about the RSS. And if we can bridge those misunderstandings, we can move ahead. but there are some issues that can easily be resolved. Some are more complex. The easy ones can be done in a short time, the more complex ones will take a long, long time. So, it is better to keep engaging in dialogues.

ETV:Ahead of the Lok Sabha and Assembly elections in five states, the issue of the Uniform Civil Code has again gathered momentum. Did you discuss this issue as well?

Jung: No, we did not discuss the UCC at that time but we will discuss it in the next meeting. The Chief Minister of Uttarakhand, Pushkar Singh Dhami has said that most of the preparation for the Uniform Civil Code (UCC) draft is completed, and the government-constituted committee will submit its proposals by June 30. Let's wait for that. Let them first come up with a draft document, then only we'll comment on this.

ETV: How do you see the situation in India at present?

Jung:India is a boiling pot. The situation in Manipur is extremely scary. More than five weeks have gone by but violence is at its peak. The wounds of ethnic strife have again picked up pace and its effects can be felt in other parts of the north-east as well. But I hope the situation gets better soon. Similarly, there are issues like unemployment and inflation which are affecting the lives of the common man. So we need to work on these issues.

ETV: There is a rise in right-wing organisations not just in India or in the continent but in the West as well. How do you see this?

Jung: Yes, it's a very serious situation. We are witnessing a rise in right-wing ideologies not just here but in the West as well. I am a witness to plenty of anti-Semitism in the UK and America. You look at Pakistan. It is a failed state where people are the main sufferers. Pakistan is a perfect example of religious extremism. Religious education is important but we need scientific temperament as well. Otherwise, it's dangerous.

ETV:You served as an IAS for almost three decades and were the LG of Delhi as well. In these turbulent times, how did IAS or the administrators fail the nation?

Jung:I will not say that they've failed the nation but yes, to a larger extent they've compromised. I have worked as a DC for almost 10 years. So when I saw that communal clashes were happening in Kolhapur, I felt such an incident could have been stopped by the DC.

ETV:There's a general opinion that 'babus' earns a lot of money, What is your opinion on this?

Jung:Well, people are free to think whatever they like. I worked both with the Congress and the BJP as well. I have never witnessed anything that suggests whatever you said.

ETV:Were you ever offered a bribe?

Jung:No.